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13 Brentford Rd 12:34 Mon Jul 23
Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

Been rumbling on since last week.
Labour now ignoring the internationally recognised definition of anti semitism and trying to bring in their own code.......


”Hodge stands by comments accusing Corbyn of antisemitism
Labour MP, who faces party inquiry, says leader must be judged on his actions"

Mon 23 Jul 2018
The veteran Labour MP Dame Margaret Hodge has defended her decision to call Jeremy Corbyn a “racist and antisemite” despite facing disciplinary action and has instructed her lawyers to challenge the decision.

Hodge, who made the comments about the Labour leader in the Commons on Tuesday, faces a party inquiry after its national executive committee (NEC) refused to abandon a controversial new code of conduct on antisemitism.

The MP’s lawyers on Monday wrote to the party’s general secretary, Jennie Formby, to question the “fairness and legitimacy” of the investigation and suggest that the threats of suspension were an “attempt to silence” her.

The letter from law firm Mischon de Reya also accused the party of failing to set out the allegation against the MP or the rule that had been breached.

“It is a fundamental breach of natural justice and principles of fairness. You have left our client in the bizarre position whereby possible suspension is hanging over her for future unspecified behaviour.”

Hodge’s comments came as some MPs and peers were planning to push an emergency motion at a meeting on Monday urging the parliamentary Labour party to adopt a fuller definition of antisemitism, “including all of its accompanying examples”, in what would be seen as a rebuke to Corbyn.

In an interview with BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, Hodge said she stood by the criticism and that Corbyn should be judged on his actions and not his words.

“I have always in the past disagreed with those who called him antisemite but … what has happened in the [last] few months … has been a bridge too far,” she said.

“He is the leader of the Labour party, accountability rests with him … you can carry on saying you are not antisemitic but it’s by his actions that he has to be judged.”

Hodge criticised Corbyn for failing to respond to antisemitism against Labour members and concerns among the Jewish community.

She is critical of the party’s new code of conduct on antisemitism, which features the internationally accepted International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition, but does not replicate in full a list of examples of antisemitism published by the IHRA alongside its definition.

Hodge said: “It’s not what you say, it’s what you do, and he hasn’t adopted the full definition of antisemitism that everyone else has.”

However she vowed to remain in the Labour party, despite the row. Hodge said: “I have been in the party for so long. I fought the British National party, this is all about my identity and my values.

“I could have had time off when I was fighting the BNP [for her Barking seat in 2010] … my husband had just died, but it was important to fight. This is the same … I will fight from within the Labour party.”

She said she had faced abuse on social media since her row with Corbyn. “I have been called a ‘Zionist bitch’ and told I was ‘under orders of my paymaster in Israel’,” she said.

She said the comments were posted on social media pages that were supportive of the Labour leader.

“Within 12 hours of my talking to Jeremy Corbyn face to face I received a disciplinary letter. Think how long it has taken for the Labour party to respond to any allegations of antisemitism. I am not even sure they have responded to terrible words that [were posted online about me], accusing me of horrific things.”

A spokesman for Corbyn said Hodge’s accusations that he was antisemitic were unacceptable.

However, the disciplinary action against her has prompted anger from Corbyn’s critics in the party, not least because of Hodge’s standing within Labour. She is a former minister and former chair of the public accounts committee.

The shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, has suggested that a line should be drawn under the row. “My view is let’s resolve this very, very quickly, almost drop the complaint, and let’s move on. Or if someone wants their complaint investigated, let’s get that done quickly.”

The shadow solicitor general, Nick Thomas-Symonds, defended Labour’s approach. Referring to the IHRA’s examples of antisemitism, he said many of them were “adopted word for word in our code of conduct”, while in others “the ground is covered” in the document. He said the code would cover the abuse received by Hodge.

He told the Today programme: “We should be going further than the IHRA definition and the language of the code is at times much stronger. We need to expand on a lot of the examples to ensure that we have a legally enforceable code so that we can enforce discipline as everyone wants to.

“I totally understand, as well, that there have been concerns expressed by my parliamentary colleagues and concerns expressed by Jewish community leaders. We obviously take those very seriously indeed, and so we should, and that’s why I think the NEC was also right, while adopting this code, to say that we will now have a further consultation and take those into account. What we really need to do is to have something that we can all be comfortable with going forward.”

Labour’s code of conduct includes a section listing only some of the examples of antisemitism published by the IHRA. The missing examples include accusing Jewish people of being more loyal to Israel than their home country and claiming that Israel’s existence as a state is a racist endeavour.

Labour said all the examples were covered by other parts of the code. For instance, there is a section that specifically states: “It is wrong to accuse Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.”

Corbyn said it would be better if any debate about the issue was delayed until after summer recess, which starts on Tuesday, because attendance might be limited"

joey5000 12:55 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

What has this got to do with West Ham?

Darby_ 12:57 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

Would you like Corbyn more if he slagged off Muslims like you do, Brenty?

13 Brentford Rd 1:02 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

Except I don't slag off Muslims.

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 1:03 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

Oooh, Darby gets in with an early, 'yes, but this sort of anti-Semitism is OK because, um, Labour loves love Muslims'.

El Scorchio 1:04 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

Is it really sensible opening this can of worms again, in light of recent incidents involving the site being taken down?

Far Cough 1:05 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

Don't we have enough fucking political threads?

Gavros 1:06 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

Lock this shit.

FWIW Brenty I agree that labour are a bunch of cunts on this issue.

That said given recent developments....

Literal Paul 1:07 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

this really didn't need another thread on this forum

On The Ball 1:08 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

We could just Eddie B a few dozen pages of one of the other threads to save some time.

collyrob 1:10 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

Lock this and ban this attention seeking sex offender.

eusebiovic 1:11 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

I'm confused...

Does the international definition mean that nobody is allowed to criticize the Israeli Government regardless of their actions?

Is this the crux of the problem?

ie: Trying to distinguish that it is O.K to be critical without being accused of anti-semitism

Because with the way things stand - that way lies madness

Gavros 1:12 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

collyrob 1:10 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....
Lock this and ban this attention seeking sex offender.

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 1:14 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

eusebiovic 1:11 Mon Jul 23

'Does the international definition mean that nobody is allowed to criticize the Israeli Government regardless of their actions?'

That would be crazy, if true.

Which part of it leads you to believe that to be the case?

Gavros 1:14 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

IHRA definition

“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

Gavros 1:15 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

To guide IHRA in its work, the following examples may serve as illustrations:

Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for “why things go wrong.” It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits.

Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.

Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.

Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.

Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).

Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.

Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.

Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

Sven Roeder 1:32 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

Labour are anti-Semitic in that they support Palestine in their struggle with Israel.
And Israel regard anything but full support as anti semitism

The Tories get around the problem by supporting Israel wholeheartedly.
As they are the ones with money

13 Brentford Rd 1:48 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

No it's not anti semitic to criticise Israel or support Palestinians.
In fact Israel is constantly criticised externally and internally.
There are Palestinians and Arabs in the Israeli government, army, Air force etc..and many are citizens, over 20% of Israelis are Arabs.

Labour clearly has an agenda here and wants to adopt it's own definitions instead of internationally recognised ones. Why is Labour so special? Can you imagine any other race or religion being told by the Labour Party or anyone else what is offensive to them and what isn't?
There would be uproar, accusations of racism, vigils and demos.

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 1:53 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

Sven Roeder 1:32 Mon Jul 23

'The Tories get around the problem by supporting Israel wholeheartedly.
As they are the ones with money'

I'll assume you are on a wind-up, since that is obviously anti-Semitism under several of the examples given below.

No wonder Labour don't want to use the examples.

mallard 2:00 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

Ban the GRASS

Darby_ 6:04 Mon Jul 23
Re: Labour's latest anti semitism row.....

You sound massively camp when you say ‘Ohhh’, Surfy.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that of course. Just a heads up.

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